Design Your Physician Life
Design Your Physician Life
4. Wealth for Women
Hi! I'm Dr. Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez. And, this is Episode #4!
Today, we have a very special guest, Dr. Bonnie Koo. She's the creator of Wealthy Mom MD. And she actually has a new book that is an Amazon number one bestseller already. It's called Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash. We had a great conversation with Dr. Koo about precisely that wealth for women. This episode is packed with useful information. Make the best of it! Enjoy!
To further engage with Dr. Koo, follow these links:
-- Website: WealthyMomMD
-- Podcast: Wealthy Mom MD Podcast
-- Course: Money for Women Physicians
-- Private Coaching: Work With Me
-- Facebook: wealthymommd
-- Instagram: wealthymommd
-- Twitter: wealthymommd
Some Products Mentioned
-- Book: The White Coat Investor by James M Dahle, MD
-- Tool: You Need a Budget (YNAB)
Thank you for joining us this week!
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My Website
https://drmyrdalisdiaz.com/
maxAllure Mastermind
https://maxallure.com/
Follow Dr. Myrdalis Diaz at these links:
- Website: drmyrdalisdiaz.com
- Podcast: Design Your Physician Life
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- Facebook: myrdalisdiaz
- Instagram: drmyrdalisdiaz
We're very excited today to have Dr. Bonnie cool with us. She has just released her book designing wealth for women. And we are very, very happy to have her in our podcast. So thank you for being here. Welcome.
Bonnie Koo:Thank you so much excited to be here.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So before we dive on to the book, you know, we want to learn more about you your life. What inspired you in the first place before you ever thought that you were going to be writing a book about wealth for women? You were a doctor. So what inspired you to be a doctor? Was it like, early on? Was he like later in college? What what happened?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, it's funny. I don't get this question asked a lot. Usually they're asking me, how did you start your business? But I've always loved science and the body like, I'm gonna date myself. But when I was a young girl, people had encyclopedias. Remember those? I had them too. Yeah. So we had the I don't remember what it was called. But it wasn't Britannica. It was the other one. Maybe it's called World encyclopedia. But I remember the books were blue, like a deep blue with like gold, you know? Yes. Writing or trim? And something. Yeah. And so I remember there was like a section on maybe it was the human body or was it medicine, but I would like read that. So I was, like I said, I always love science, since a young age. And I always it's funny, like, I knew I was one of those people that knew what I was gonna major in. When I apply to college. I was like, I, you know, usually they, I don't even know why they asked you, but they do. And I picked biochemistry. And I remember people saying, like, you're not going to do that, or that's really hard, but that's what I did. And the same thing with med school, like, I was like, I'm gonna be a dermatologist day one, or like, you're gonna change your mind. I'm like, Nope.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Why did you like biochemistry? I really
Bonnie Koo:liked biology. And I really liked chemistry. Okay, obviously, I didn't really know what it was, when I said I want to do it. I just was like, I think this is what I want to do. And the college I went to Barnard College in New York City, every I think every biochem major is different depending where you go to school. So where I went to school, it was actually through the chemistry department. So it was actually like, a chemistry major with a little bit of biology in it. So I remember, there was like a fork in the road where I was like, Okay, do I become a scientist? Or do I become a doctor and I consider getting, I didn't seriously consider the PhD route. But I was thinking about it, right? Like, do I want to do this? Or do I want to see patients? And I obviously came to the conclusion that I'd rather be a doctor than a scientist. And I think it just came down to like, I wanted to interact with people not that you don't as a scientist, you know, it's just it's different. It was definitely
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:yeah, it was a biologist and I had the same questions, you know, it comes forward you go with like you do you be a geneticist, which is what I was interested in or become a doctor. And also I have to tell like the, the financial model of asking for grants to be doing your research, do not track me that much. I prefer like to have that relationship with with the patients and the way that it worked like one on one. And then it was it was different than working with the rats. For me, which I worked with some.
Bonnie Koo:I thought genetics was really hard. Like, I remember taking, like some advanced and I was like, I don't understand this. It was like too much math involved.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:I'm such a nerd. I loved it. I loved it. Well, eventually became a dermatologist. So why did you become a dermatologist? Why did you know? Like, why are you so sure? Oh, I'm gonna be a dermatologist. And that's it.
Bonnie Koo:I mean, similar answer, like I probably didn't really know what a dermatologist meant. I mean, so long, I don't even remember like, it's like, okay, free skincare is nice. Like, that was definitely part of it. The lifestyle was definitely part of it. But like, one of the like, my first job out of residency was actually running the console server. So I really like I think what I learned through med school was you know, I think dermatology is kind of like joked about a lot like, oh, it's not that hard or not that important, I think is kind of like the message we get. I think doctors are just jealous personally. But I really loved the intersection of skin and internal medicine. So like the Console service, like so when I went to med school at Columbia, and we had a very robust hospital dermatology Console service, and we really made a difference like we really helped the internists you know, we really contributed to their differential diagnosis and sometimes depending on the thing, like there are some serious drug reactions like dress although they keep changing the name but dress as you know, Steven Johnson's he and like we would be really involved with how to treat that right because that's sort of our wheelhouse. So I really liked that I really liked that sort of part of the field of dermatology and that was my first job out of residency.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Yeah, it's I think it's overlooked because you know, a lot of people are knowledge even going to medical school. We really don't know what each specialty does really. Yeah. But we don't and we have very little exposure of even what they're like they're ergonomics going to work, that would be long term asset position, we don't know how the hours are going to be we don't know a lot of these things. And then, in terms of dermatology, there's so many internal conditions that are expressed through the skin, that, you know, it's really amazing and very important to do. And that's the largest organ, right? The skin. So moving on, you went on to be your doctor, you know, your dermatologist now, and then you go to practice. And suddenly you say, You know what, I really want to do something else. So there was a switch there. And for many people that might be burnout. For many people, it might mean that they realize they just want to just continue studying, or we're just growing different ways. What was that for you?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, so it actually wasn't I want to do something else. Like, I don't think it was a it wasn't a deliberate decision. Initially. I do what I see now. And obviously, you know, this is just my limited view of things. It seems like, well, physicians are clearly burned out. That is true. And so I think that is a reason why a lot of physicians pursue something different. It'd be, I think, interesting to see a survey, right, like, have people and just ask, what are the reasons, but for me, I never intended to start a business. And what happened was, I started this job. And it was actually a relatively new dermatology department at this hospital. And so we weren't like full with patients, at least my clinic wasn't right. Other doctors were pretty full with their clinics, and I was doing the Console service. So I had residents who would see the patients first and I would around the afternoon. So just depending on the day, I had a lot of time. So it's a joke. I'm like, because I had so much free time, that meant I was on Facebook. And Facebook groups were like just starting to become really popular and like a thing. And it was just a really kind of a novel idea. If you think about it, right? It was like a place where people could form a community virtually versus just like physically where they were and this was obviously way before COVID.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:How long ago was this? What year
Bonnie Koo:2015. Okay, so that's why I finished residency. And I started my job in September of that year. So like I said, I was always Facebook groups, and I was also learning a lot about finances, you know, for myself, and a friend of mine. And so I didn't have kids at the time. And I guess at some point, if you're a woman, you hear a PMG, right? I never heard of pmjay until my friend was like, oh, I should add you to the PMG finance group. That's what she called it, but that's
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:BMG is physicians moms group for anybody who doesn't know these, the largest physician group out there, where we connect, and we talk about anything and everything from medicine to what you were going to work tonight. Everything. Yeah, well, these subgroups. Yeah.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, it started as like a moms group. Like there's tons of moms groups, like usually by location. But this was specific, you know, to visit and now it's, you know, more inclusive, it's, you know, sort of for every woman now. And so I guess, like I said, the offshoots there's one for money. And since I had so much free time, and I and I knew the answers, I was answering everyone's questions. So that's kind of how it started. And then people started tagging me and everyone thinks I started that group, but I didn't, I'm actually no longer an admin of that group right now. So at one point, actually, a dermatologist friend of mine was like, You should start a blog. And I was like, why? That was my first reaction. I wish I, you know, I probably could find that conversation because it's in Facebook Messenger. So I should actually see if I can find that original message anyway. So you know, I would tell everyone, you should read the white coat investor book. And this is before he even had a conference, but you know, he had a book out.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:He's got your information, your finance initially.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah. And because someone told me to read the book, and that's how it started. And
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:anyway, started answering all the questions from reading that book, in the group.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, well, reading the book, and then diving into all the information out there, you know, because I, obviously was hooked. And then I just started going through the rabbit hole of all things, finances, and I did start a blog. So before I went to med school actually worked on it. And so tech doesn't scare me. That seems to be something that stops a lot of people from like pursuing an online business. But I say this only to say that starting a website was like a very easy thing for me to do wasn't like, there's a lot of friction, like I was like, okay, just, you know, start a free WordPress site and bought a domain. Like, that was not a hard thing. I ended up probably in a few hours. And so then I started writing blog posts, and it was very easy for me to write them because I would just write them based on what people were asking.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:And again, you were still working, right? Yeah. So they're mythologies in that hospital job.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah. And so it was just like a fun little hobby, so to speak. And then it just like, it kind of grew from there. You know, then people started asking me to do other things like Oh, come on my podcast, talk about money. I think just money for physicians was just really starting around that time. Just five years later, right, there are so many resources, more people are talking about it. So I just think it's amazing how much can evolve just in a few years. So speaking on, and I was doing all these things, and there's a conference called fin con. Are you familiar with it? Yes. Yeah. So I remember someone saying, oh, you should go. But at the time, I was pregnant with Jack and do when that conference was happening. So clearly, I didn't go to that. But I went the following year. But at that point, I remember like, you know, time had passed, I had this blog, you know, it was, quote, unquote, successful. And I established myself as like an expert in this field. But I didn't, I was like, What am I doing here? Like, I'm a dermatologist, like, I kinda was confused and didn't know what to do like. And I think this is actually something that happens to a lot of physicians, when they start their site. Again, they're like, I basically had to make a decision, am I actually going, is this going to be a real business? Or is this going to be a jabi? Or is this going to be whatever I work on when I feel like it? You know, I mean, there's like,
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:different levels of commitment word Joby.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, it's a job. He's like a hobby that makes a little money, but not really, you know, it's not like your primary source of income. And basically, you know, Peter can passive income and di say this a lot. He basically I was telling him, like, I don't know what to do, like, I kind of was like, wishy washy, and he's like, and he said this very nicely, cuz I know, it could seem a little blunt and aggressive, but he was like, Go big or go home.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Now, long ago was that
Bonnie Koo:2018 Fall of 2018. Yeah, was the year after I had Jack. And I remember him saying that I remember being like, I don't know. I don't know. Like, that was my answer. Like, I remember being like, I don't know. And that was the conference. And then I started working with a coach around that time. And I think I just, it's like, people always ask me, like, how did you decide? I was like, I wish I had this like magical answer. Like, like, as if, like, I had this big epiphany, but I didn't I think I just was like, why not? And if it doesn't work out, I can still be a dermatologist. You know, I mean, so So it was almost like I had nothing to lose, which can work both ways. Right? It's I think, a lot of what I see with law doctors who want to have a business, whether it's becoming a coach, I think a lot of coaches, obviously, I think they rely on their physician job as a crutch as a reason not to go all in their business, you know, because a doctor job is safe. And anyway, I could I could go on and on about this topic, but
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:so you talked about your first coach, I understand that was sunny, right? Yeah. So what was the specific trigger that you say, Okay, I'm gonna get myself a coach. Was there like a trigger that he said one day, or you heard it somewhere? What happened that he said, Okay, I'm gonna get a coach. What did that mean for you getting a coach? Yeah.
Bonnie Koo:So I actually was exposed to personal development 20 years ago, yeah, about 20 years ago to this day. So I was in my early 20s. And there was something called landmark education. I don't know if you've heard of it. And a girlfriend had done it. And then she was like, you need to do it. It's so amazing. I've learned so much. And then she couldn't really tell me specifics. I thought she sound crazy, if I'm perfectly honest. But I was studying for the MCAT. And she obviously knew that I wanted to do well, she's like, you're gonna get a higher score on the MCAT if you do this conference, and I was like, okay.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:That's, so I signed up for anything.
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, so I signed up for it. I had no idea what to expect. But that was my first exposure that like, maybe life isn't what we think it is. And how we think is maybe not what we think like, it was just like, I was like, What is going on, and actually did a lot more programs. I didn't work with a coach, like, I actually want to hire one of my early 20s. And I think she was $500 a month. And at that time, I was like, I can't, you know, pay for that. And so I never worked with her. But I met a lot of friends from that experience. When I say friends, I mean people who wanted to think and dream and live differently than the status quo. So as an exposure early on, so I say that to say that. And then I forgot about I went to med school, right training, and you just, you know, go into a bubble. And so I gotta say that preface because basically what happened is and another PMG group, Sunny Smith, who I had no idea who she was, she just posted saying, Hey, I'm trying to be a coach, and I need some free clients. And I was like, what she's coaching for free. I was like, Holy crap, cuz I already knew the value of that because of my previous experience. So I just messaged her, and then you know, the rest is history. So I was her free client for several months, and then I started paying her.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Awesome, awesome. So then since then, before going into coaching, you've had some other coaches after Sony. So how has been your coaching development? Since you work with Yeah,
Bonnie Koo:I mean, basically, I
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:know, before we go on before we go on there, sorry. Just to clarify, Sony Smith is a physician who actually has a very strong story about her burnout situation. And that's even being showcased in a movie called do no harm. So She's very important for our community. And we're very grateful for her that decided to turn that around. And then after coaching you then I interrupted you, but I just wanted to say a little bit about Sonny. Yeah.
Bonnie Koo:I didn't know her story when I didn't know who she was, like I said, I was like, I have no idea this person is. Anyway, so I started working with her. And so funny, I don't really remember exactly what happened. But she was like, okay, like, what do you want to make in your business next year? This was 2020. I was like, I don't know. 100k. That sounds cool. You know, I feel like that's like, everyone's sort of dream is like, that's the first benchmark of a successful is like, make your first 100k. And then she's like, I think you should aim higher. And I'm like, Why? Because I've made just to give some history, like, I had made like, $38,000 a year, like that year. So to be going from 30 to 100 was like, That's more than double. So I thought,
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:No, you're saying that that's in your business? Not as a physician, correct?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah. Yeah. If I was only making 30,000 As a physician, that wouldn't be great. Right? So yeah, as a for the business. And then she basically said, higher. And I was like, What do you mean, higher? She's like, you can't pick less than 200. And I was like, what? Like, I remember just being like, what is she talking about? Then I asked her why, like, why 200? Why not. And she, and this is what she told me, it was so true. She's like, if you pick 100, you just have to do more of what you're currently doing. But if you pick 200, you're going to do something different. So
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:after she told you that 200, then you change coaches eventually, right?
Bonnie Koo:Well, I worked with her for a year. And but I, and after that year ended is when I started working with a business coach, like I basically joined a mastermind, right after we finished.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Awesome. So then that eventually took you to writing this book called wealth for women. That's been just a great book, I have to say, I heard the whole thing, and I loved it. And it's narrated by you, I remember how you said that it was so hard to you know, to be doing the the actual writing of the blog talking shade, and then read the whole thing, and then I'm getting going back and forth. So before we get we dive into the book, how is the process? How was that process of what writing the book and you know, going through all that, because it's very, it's a series of steps complicated to write a book, it's not just something so easy to have. Yeah, such a great release, like you've had a great release of the book. Yeah, it's,
Bonnie Koo:it's like a whole thing. And I have so much more appreciation of anyone who publishes a book, because it's not just, you know, the content, the writing, it's the book design, the editing, getting it out there. So I used to, I guess, I call them a publishing company, but they're not like a traditional, like Penguin or Random House. It's, it's I'm self published. But self published does not mean do it yourself. 100%. Right. I think what self publish means to me is you retain full rights. And the royalties are always yours versus a publisher who actually owns the copyright for the book, which I don't know if he knew that. So like, that means it's like their intellectual property. And I just think like, the whole book industry is changing, and more and more authors are being self published. So with that said, I knew from the get go, I want to be self publish, I did think about going through a publisher, but it's not easy to get a publishing gig, right, because they're not gonna just publish any book, they want to make sure it's gonna sell right. With that said, I always knew I was going to be the self published way. But I also knew I wasn't gonna just do it myself and figure it out. Like, that's not a good use of my time, like, the best use of my time is the content. And then I had a lot of help for everything else.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So far, so now, we get to your book. I want to know exactly how to make so much money. So what's the story inside the book? Because that's not what we get initially when we say the book when we started out, but we start with mindset, right? Yeah. So why don't you go straight to strategies about how to make money?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, and so strategy is obviously important. That's what most books focus on. The thing with strategy, like, you know, what you need to do how to do X, it's limited by or I shouldn't say limited, but it's influenced by what you think you're able to have and do. Right? And so most of us have bought into this trajectory where you go to school, you get a job, and then you put money away for retirement now, that's actually like a relatively new thing before the company took care of you. Right. That's work pensions and stuff like that, but that's largely gone away. Except for Kaiser, I guess, right. Kaiser still does that for their doctors, but it you know, for the most part, most companies don't do that. Like they'll have a very generous retirement plan with Imagine stuff and maybe you get stock options. But now for most people, you have to the onus is on you to put the money away and have it grow over decades through the power of compound interest. And then when you're 65, then you could retire and enjoy life, right? That's kind of like, what I don't even think we're taught that. It's just like, that's what everyone does. And so you're like, oh, that's, that's what we're supposed to do. Right? And so that's what you think you should do? And the thing is, like, if that's what you think you should do, then all the strategies that you learn are going to be focused on that. Does that make sense? And there's nothing wrong with that type of life. Like, I'm not saying like, that's the wrong way to live life. But most of us don't even consider that there might be another way.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:And when you're talking about money mindset, what's the usual process? Because you've been a money coach for for many positions? What's the process when they come to you? They say, You know what? Here? Listen, we have some stories in the book about this. But how long does it take them to realize that they really have to change their mindset, before they can move on to a strategy?
Bonnie Koo:How long does it take? I think it's really individual. And that's actually one of the reasons why my program is forever lifetime access. It's not like it's three months, and then like you're back into the wild. Right. And so, you know, some people get it really quickly. When I say get out, it doesn't I don't mean like the people who don't get it quickly, or there's something wrong with them. But I think like we're all in our own journey, we're and I think like, your mindset coming in influences how quickly you're, you pick it up, but you don't have a server that says, How long did it take you to, to figure it out? But that's the first thing they learned on my program. So unless they don't do that first part, you know, so it's hard to answer that question.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So once you're there working about, you know, when your mindset you say, You know what, this really, I really have to think about my money differently. The way that I spend it, the the way that I see money, because money, as you say, is basically a tool, like it doesn't have feelings, the feelings are on you about your money, the way you handle it, and all these things. And as a physician, or many professionals, they say, okay, when I graduate from medicine, I'm gonna make X amount of money, and I have arrived. But yet you see a lot of unhappiness, which takes you to this topic of arrival fallacy. They're very well policy myth, which I love the way that you disgusted. Can you tell us a little bit more about that topic?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, I mean, it's basically the fallacy that once you get to a certain destination, so since we're talking about doctors, we all think what's become attending life is gonna be great. We're gonna make all this money, and we will enjoy the fruits of our labors. And obviously, that does happen, our income goes up dramatically, we're able to do things have experiences that we couldn't have as a resident, right? But a lot of people are like, is this it? Like, I think they expected like some magical switch to go off. And obviously, certain things are better. But then people are especially women, I think we have this sort of like internal dissatisfaction, which is like one part, but then the second part is, then we think there's something wrong because we have that satisfaction. And when I say there's something wrong, like, we're like, shouldn't we be grateful that we have this life? There's a lot of like, questioning, like, Oh, is there something wrong with me, like, I should be grateful. And every time you have like, a should statement going on, like, it just doesn't make you feel good? Or like, well, I should be doing this, or I should be happy. And you know, as women, we've been sort of socialized to be grateful. Like, we should be grateful. Like, that's a message that women get, and if we're not grateful, then we're being ungrateful and being ungrateful is bad. Right?
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Yeah, but that feels like settling, right? Yeah. Do you see like, you have something like some happiness, and you're not. There's something under you. That that is restless. One of the things that I think many of us experience is, once I graduate, I'm going to have like, the best car and the best house and, and then that that's it, and then we have all this debt, also from school. And it's just like, yeah, and we remember like, so what, like we had to take so many hard tests to come here. And every time we were studying and doing something harder and harder, and then you get there, it's like, okay, I'm here. So now now what? So when you're at that point, and you have kind of arrived to these particular stage, and you have these thoughts, how can you change them into productive thoughts?
Bonnie Koo:Well, you know, the first thing that I really one of the things I teach, and it's so important, it's so easy to forget is like when you're so focused on a destination, you don't appreciate what you have. You're not like, appreciative, grateful, whatever you want to call it. And I see this a lot in my clients, because once they're like, oh, I want this and they have like this money goal. They're so focused on getting there and they become very impatient. They're like, I want it all now. But that mentality is very similar to the arrival policy that they've because they think it's going to be better once they have more money. And like, that's not true. Because we think the money is going to create that feeling of satisfaction or happiness or whatever they're going for. And so one of the things we have to learn is that you can create those feelings now, like, you don't have to wait for the money. Because clearly, becoming attending did not magically create that for you, right. But we think, oh, there must be something else. So then we chase the next thing. And you're just never satisfied. So you have to, you know, as a business owner, you know, I know your business owners, like, most of us have these like income goals, right, which is good, because it keeps us focused, whatever. But if you don't appreciate the money you're making, like every week, let's say your goal is 100k. You make 100k $1 at a time, whatever$100 or $1,000 a time. So if you're not happy or celebrating the money that is coming in, it's not like you're gonna magically be happier once it's 100k. And so it's like really learning to appreciate everything you have.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:And one of the things I liked about your book is when you're talking about spending, you know how you spend this important, like, if you're going to feel guilty about it, after you've spent so much money in that purse that you mentioned, you know, when you're going to have the coffee with your girlfriends, and how to control yourself, but not controlling yourself in ways that you feel guilty? Oh, I cannot be buying that purse, because I'm in a money diet. Right? So can you give us like a tip of how to think about purchasing stuff without making us you know, feel guilty about our purchase? Or how would you approach that purse? If you're walking on the street? And and you absolutely love that person is like I have to have it? And and how would you say okay, how am I going to make a decision about buying that purse?
Bonnie Koo:Well, I feel like there's two aspects to this, right. It's like buying it when you have the money and buying it when you don't. So let's say you buy it, and you actually don't have the money to buy it. That creates a different set of feelings around buying it versus because that's, you know, one thing and then there's people who have the money to buy and they feel guilty about spending money. But that's like a whole different ballgame. So which one do you want me to talk about?
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Let's talk about not having them. Yeah. So
Bonnie Koo:it's very similar to we just talked about the Ralph we think like, we're gonna feel better once we have the purse, or like, right, and you do feel better? Initially, right? You get that dopamine hit of like buying it. But it's like with all things like the the feeling wears off. And then you're left with the credit card debt, right if you don't have the money. And so I think it's very similar. It's like, you think life will be better if you have that purse. And that's just not true. And I think if you still want fancy purses, like I think that's okay, but then it's like, let's figure out how to make so much money that I can buy all the purses in the world if that sort of thing.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So now let's talk about a different example. For example, I have this friend, she's very famous in her field is not medicine. Her thing is that she really wants to get a convertible. That's, you know, growing up, that was the thing in her mind, and that's what she wants to get. And then her husband comes from a different mindset, we're having that type of car is something that's flashy, like, you don't want to expose your car, you know, you don't want to tell anybody how much money you've got. But that's what she wants, like, she desires that she has the money. So what about when you have the money, but there's some guilt, about purchasing certain thing like, you talk about watches for men, they don't feel guilty, and they go and buy the watch. How about a woman like that, who you know, she's really a professional, she wants to buy her comfortable, but somebody is making them feel guilty because they're not to be flashing money?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, well, what I'll say about that is no one can make you feel guilty, right? No one can jump in your body and make you feel guilty. So she feels guilty about doing it right. And it's like she must already feel guilty and her partner saying that is just kind of bringing up the thoughts surety. How's about guilt? So I see this a lot just women in general, feeling guilty about spending money on themselves as if we need a good reason. I think women feel like we need a good reason to do anything. Have you noticed, we can't just it's very hard for us to say I want it and that's why I bought it or that's why I went after it. We feel that society wants a good reason. Like for example, I can imagine your friends saying well, I've worked so hard, I deserve it. Right? A lot of people say things like that. And so it's so funny, I was looking at the definition of guilt. And guilt basically comes from thinking that what you're doing is bad. And so I would just have her explore that right? Like money isn't good or bad. Her desires aren't good or bad. Right? And so, and I think I don't know her background, but I see a lot of I feel like it's a bit more pronounced if you grew up in a religious household. maybe depending on the culture that you grew up in.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Yeah, there's certainly values that are associated with wanting money or wanting things that are expensive. And then having others know about that. Because you know, that then goes against humility, and all these other things that you're supposed to be feeling or showing. So we're going to be now moving on into a spending plan, instead of a budget. So we are taught all our lives most of us to do a budget budget budget. And a budget, as you say, feels like a diet. And I like the way that you say, You know what, let's do, like at least the things that you enjoy your joy list, right? And then you put those into a plan where you don't have to wait until the time that you're going to retire, to enjoy your life. So you make that part of the plan. So if you can give us like three tips about how to build your spending plan, what would those be?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, so this really creates a mindset shift, because so many of us think of budgets as like, oh, I have to cut expenses somewhere, right? That's how most of us approach budgets, like, Oh, I'm doing a budget, because I'm spending too much. And I have to cut, cut, cut, versus creating a spending plan. And as you know, in the chapter I talked about, and you could figure out how to make more money, so you don't have to cut expenses. I don't think there's anything wrong with temporarily tightening up the wallet, so to speak, in order to meet a goal. But it's like, I think when you think about like, Oh, I'm cutting expenses, I'm decreasing the pleasure I can have in life. Like, I think that's why so many people, it's like, a food diet, right? Like people are like, I'm going to give a pizza and cake. And it's, that's no one wants to do that. I mean, I think some people do do that. But it's like, it's I don't know, I really enjoy eating food is definitely a source of pleasure for me. It's not, you know, have you heard of like, there's this movement, like Food is fuel? I'm like, No, that is not how I think about food, especially like, I think, you know, the way like, in our culture, food is celebrated, right? I don't know. I think maybe in the white American culture, maybe food doesn't have that same connotation. So I think I really think the same analogy applies to money. It's like, no, no, you don't have to, like, if you go into a spending plan with like, I'm never taking, you know, I'm not gonna go on a vacation this year, I'm gonna stop. I don't know, whatever it is that you spend money on that you enjoy. Like, that is just a recipe for rebellion. Right? And so what I mean by the joy spring is like, No, you gotta keep that in there. Right? And there are always areas that you can spend lesson that don't give you joy. So it's like identifying, like, what do I really want spend my money on? Because I find that a lot of high earning women, they don't, I'm not saying you have to track every dollar you spend. But when they do look at how they're spending their money, they're often surprised at where the money goes. And so it's like identifying, just having the awareness of where their money goes, or like, oh, do I want to still spend money on that? Or would I rather spend money on this? Would I rather invest? So I think it's, I think of a spending plan is like just really being aware and conscious of where your money is going. And obviously, if you want to buy and grow assets, which is what I teach to create wealth, you have to figure out what you can put towards that. Right.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So you mentioned that to YNAB, in your book, and I have to say that we've been using that for over the last year. And it's been an eye opener, because we've been able to yes, it's you need a budget, but we use it as a spending plan. So that we have the things that we spend, we have money that we're going to be putting aside already ahead of time for things like okay, if the car has a problem, if our house has a problem if somebody gets sick that's already there, because it's gonna happen at some point. And then we also have for our dreams for the future for our investments to build on assets, and we have for immediate dreams, okay, so we're, we know that we're going to want to do all these trips through the year, and we have this other big one that's going to happen this time. And it's already worked into that way. And we know that we're having joy, well, what we're doing, we're planning for joy in we have also some room to move. Like if you have a spur of the moment thing that you like and and you can do nothing that will will keep you away from leaving, while still planning on being you know, intentional about the money movement in your household.
Bonnie Koo:I like what you just said because so when people think like planning, whether it's money or just planning in general, that means like, oh then I can't be spontaneous, but I actually think the opposite. The more you plan, it actually allows for more spontaneity.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:It gives you a knowledge, you know what you can do? And then we that okay, you know, I'm not gonna go on by the $10,000 whatever expense here but I can buy maybe 500 here or 500 there or something like that. And it gives everybody like some room to be able to move, and you're not restricted in some way that of that uncertainty or coming back to a really bad surprise, that then you're going to be having to spend and then you have to cut in some other places. So I think that it does give you some freedom, the planning ahead of time for that and for anything in your life. So let's see if I want to get to work with you. I'm like, so excited. I read your book, and I want to join your groups. And how does that happen? How do we find you? How can we get to go to work with Dr. Barnicle?
Bonnie Koo:Yeah, so the best you know, so I work with people primarily through my program, which is called money for women physician. So you just got my website, and you could read more about that. But like I said before, it's a lifetime access program. And what that means is, cuz I think that I think a lot of programs say lifetime access, like you have access to the course materials forever. That part is true. But what I mean by lifetime access is you have lifetime access to our private community, you can ask as many questions as you want, you will get coached, and we have a weekly coaching call, that's usually me. And so you have access to that forever. Because what I found is, people are busy, right? We're busy. And I used to offer as like a three month type of thing. And it's not that that didn't work. But I feel like you know, with money mindset, it's an ongoing, it's not a one and done thing. You know, it's an ongoing process. And it's an iterative process. So just to give you a quick example of that, like, when I first started learning money, I was like, Oh, this is a 403 b. And this is an index fund. And this is how I'm going to slice and dice it. And that was like, my first foray into money. But you know, that was almost seven years ago. And so but now I'm in a different place. Now I'm doing real estate. But I couldn't have done that seven years ago, my mind wasn't there. So as my mind evolves and changes, as I open my mind more, really, and be more risk tolerant, and all that stuff like I'm, then I end up doing different things with my money. So it's an iterative process. I think what I see a lot is women, like I said, they get a little impatient with themselves, because they want it all now. They're wondering, why can't I do investing right away, because I'll see because their members have been part of my group for different varying. So like those, there's women who are, quote, unquote, further ahead, meaning there, they've already invested in real estate. And there's women coming in who have to figure out their retirement accounts first. And so it was important to me to have that on that continuity, so that you have some place to come back to when you're ready to make that next move.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:So how can you tell us about what the potential of being a digital nomad looks like? Because that's what your life could be right now.
Bonnie Koo:Oh, well, I think to me, a digital nomad means you have an online business. So it's not like you're tied to a brick and mortar shop. Like, I don't think that's for everyone, right? Because some people want like, their own private practice, for example, right. And that's not going to be an online thing. Although it's so funny now that I, I'm in the business world, like I see so many, so much potential for what doctors can do for medicine. You know, I mean, like, cuz I think when we're in med school and residency, you're kind of told like, this is how you practice. The employee model of medicine is, as you know, relatively new before everyone started their own practice. But that's not the case. Now. People still do it, obviously, right? I have a lot of dermatology friends who started their own practices. I think certain specialties, it's easier to do that than others. Right? If you're an anesthesiologist, it's, it's not that it's harder. It's just different, right? Because you still have to be with the hospital for the most part. So when you have an online business like I do, you're not limited to so you could be a digital nomad. And you know, our mutual friends lady and Kenji are, that life is not for me, I love to travel. But like, I like having a home. And so because of my business, I'm not restricted to travel, right. So like, I traveled once, already this year, and I have actually in two weeks, I'm going somewhere, and then that's for business. But then mid March, we're taking two weeks to go to Hawaii, right? And my business doesn't have to stop because I'm traveling. Like sometimes I'll hire someone else to coach for me if I really kind of want to take time off. But it's not a big deal for me to do an hour coaching call if I'm away.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:Well, thank you very much for being here. Do you have any parting tips for people who want to learn more about money?
Bonnie Koo:I think you know, the one thing I've been saying a lot, which I love is just like, I guess giving permission to a woman to like dare to want more money because I think a lot of us are we don't even feel like we're allowed to want more money. And so the thing that I've just been telling everyone and I actually got it printed on bookplates you know for signing my book, and this is the quote, you are meant to be wealthy.
Myrdalis Diaz-Ramirez:That's right. We have to get that mindset where we also believe that ourselves so thank you, Dr. Bonnie Gu for being here. And anybody who wants to go I really invite and recommend that you read or listen to this book, defining wealth for women. It just came out this year 2022 And you're going to be blown away, changing your mindset around money and then finally being able to work on strategies to get there and make more money. Thanks a lot.
Bonnie Koo:Thank you
